Welcome to the Loved Called Gifted podcast. This is your place to come for musings about spirituality, identity and purpose. I'm your host, Catherine Cowell.

C: I am really delighted today to be with Ben and Heather Cope in your little studio. So do you want to tell us a bit about where we are and who you are?

H: We are Ben and Heather Cope, now commonly known as coping together. I'm sure you'll note the link to the name. So we are set up as a CIC, so a not for profit organization.

It's two years ago now, isn't it?
B: Yes
H: With the idea of bringing our joint passion for music into the SEND world to create a music service for specifically for children and young people with additional needs, but for all additional needs and disabilities. We found that there was groups out there for autism specifically for Down syndrome specifically, but nothing for SEND as a whole, which is the gap that we wanted to fill.

We're a SEND family ourselves.

C: Yeah.

H: Also, we've got four children between us and our 10 year old Eve is diagnosed with autism. She's non-verbal. We have some tricky behaviours with her sometimes as a result of that along with her severe learning disability.

She's always loved music, listening, not playing necessarily and sometimes the same 10 seconds on repeat. They have particular songs.
So we're inspired by her really. We access or we try and access services ourselves as a family for her and there just aren't very many appropriate ones for children like her.

So the idea was to create a service for everybody to be able to access, particularly for children like our Eve that do struggle in different social settings, which is also why we created our teaching studio at home, which is where we are.
So we converted our garage, Ben started it in lockdown, didn't he? And turned the garage into a music studio. And then we've now had it extended all the way out to the front to accommodate all the equipment that we need. And once we put ourselves out into the SEND world, we started to gather speed quite quickly.
So we had new students join in all the time. Once word got out, and some of our other families and parents started to spread the word for us. Yes, we have quite a few students now.
So that's where we are in our little teaching space, which is also turned into a little home away from home, which was the idea.

C: Yeah.

H: You know, we're in a family space. Sometimes our children might pop in and say hello. But we find that that helps with some of our families and some of our children. Because it creates that sense of family and comfort for them too. We don't have any issues with children feeling uncomfortable.

B: No, not at all. The studio is filled with tons of instruments. There's guitars on the wall, there's two pianos, there's a drum kit. There's LED lights, sound activated lights all over the place. So when the kids are playing, the lights are going off and just makes it that bit more sensory for them. They seem to enjoy that as well.

H: They do.

B: And there's plenty of different instruments to get stuck into. It's a help that both Heather and I play all the different instruments.

H: We do.

B: I play guitar and drums and bass. You do singing and piano.

H: A bit of ukulele. We've got some tuned handbells. Some tuned tubes, commonly known as boomwhackers. They're quite good because they're quite holistic. When it comes to some of our children, it's not just the sound that's created from the instrument, but the way that they get the sound out of the instrument by hitting things with great force, which is what those boomwhackers are designed to do. So yes, that's always an interesting one. Walls, floors, people sometimes we find. But yeah, it's actually a really enjoyable space to be in. Not just to teach in, but just to be in. And we find that our children share that. Particularly Eve, she likes to be in here, doesn't she?

B: She does indeed. Yeah.

H: She likes to sit at the piano with some headphones on. And our two year old also likes to be in here too, making lots of mess and noise. But we're quite familiar with that. As are our neighbours, we hope.

C: So kind of going back a bit, when did each of you discover that you've got a passion for music?

H: I mean, both of us have been practising musicians since we were children.
B: Yeah.
H: I've played the piano from a very young age. I'm self taught. I don't come from an affluent family, particularly. So it wasn't that we weren't in a position to be able to afford formal piano lessons or anything like that. So it is something that I taught myself to do as a child. And you've been playing the guitar for a very long time now, haven't you?

B: Yeah. My dad was a music teacher. He taught different instruments, but also taught in schools as well. And he was also in bands, gigging pretty much every weekend. So I was always surrounded by music when I was younger. And just grew to love music in that aspect and creating music and being able to play instruments and stuff made my life really. And who I am is just music. Love it.

C: Yeah. So what does it give you?

B: In regards to listening or creating? Because there's a different feeling for me.
I don't know if that's the same for yourself.

H: In what way?

B: It's like when you're listening to music, it's very therapeutic, but comforting as well because you know the songs. You get familiar with the songs and they bring back memories and you just become associated with songs when you're listening to them.

H: Yeah, it's sometimes a bit of a mood determiner for me too. Or a way of communicating my current mood.

C: Yeah.

H: So I'm sure Ben will testify that if there's some heavy metal playing, you might find that I'm doing some quite aggressive cleaning to it for example. Because it motivates me in that way. But then equally, just listening, not necessarily playing, but just listening to music. And we're both quite eclectic, aren't we? With our musical tastes.

B: Yeah.

H: And I think we've both kind of helped to expand each other's repertoire also in the last seven years. That's how long we've been together for, seven years now. So in that time, I think you've been a greater influence on me than the other way around. Just because your exposure to music has been broader than mine.

B: Yeah.

H: I think... my dad's quite musical, but my mum's not interested musically.

C: Yeah.

H: And my dad's quite linear with some of his music tastes, isn't he?

B: But it's a good kind of indicator of how music speaks to people though. It's like a language, isn't it? But it's a language that everybody can speak. It's a language everyone can speak. And even if kids with additional needs and stuff, they still get that same connection with music.
Because it's just so inherent in us as human beings that everybody can enjoy music. And that's the wonderful thing about music is, yeah.

C: So you were talking about the difference between what music gives you when you're listening to it and when you're playing it.

B: Yeah. So when you're playing it, it gives you a different feeling because you are then creating that music. So if you're playing a song that you really enjoy listening to, you get a much kind of more deeper understanding of the music.
You kind of understand how it works and it gives you that real kind of satisfaction of being able to produce that same sound or a similar sound to these songs that you enjoy. But even just to create music without any kind of intent of creating music. This is another thing with the kids that we teach is that even the simplest of things, just being able to create a note and be able to play it and make a sound and then put things together is just ultimately gratifying, isn't it?

H: Very gratifying. For the kids. For them, but also for us as tutors.
B: Oh yeah.
H: And it gives us an immense amount of achievement and satisfaction for us to watch them do it. And actually with some of our students, without a great deal of effort from us sometimes really, because like we've said, music is inherent in human beings as a whole, but we notice with our students in particular that actually because music is that language that everybody can speak and everybody can understand and access in whatever form is most appropriate. That's how it comes out in them. And before you know it, we're in the teaching room with a child that's never picked up an instrument before and we are giving them the tool to show how to use that instrument.
But a lot of the time, once we taught them what to do with the instruments, that's it, that's all we need to do. And it's just about giving them that nurture and that environment to create in their own way, in whatever way they feel most comfortable with or that's most accessible for them. And that's the whole point to coping together.
That's it. That's the ethos for us, isn't it?

B: Yeah.

C: So if I think back to when I had trombone lessons...

H: I could just see you playing the trombone?

C: I haven't played the trombone for quite a long time, but it was really quite formal.
So yeah, I had to learn the bass clef and then I had to learn how to play the notes and then we would kind of work our way through playing different songs and then I did some grades. So it sounds like what you do is quite different from that.

B: Yes.

H: Very different.

B: Very much so.

H: But it could equally become that and actually some of our students are doing grades with their certain instruments, but that's not something that we would ever push onto any of our children. And a lot of the time, the children that are doing grades are the children whose parents have requested that we ask if we can do grades with them. And of course the answer is yes to that.
So we've got one end of the spectrum where we've got children that come just to play and enjoy in whatever way suits. Then all the way at the other end, we've got students that are coming and learning, almost formally learning an instrument to be able to do graded exams. But the way that we teach for grades, it can be different.

So the way that you would teach grades will be different to how I would teach grades, I think. So just to give you some context, Ben was a peripatetic guitar teacher for a local music service in schools. So it was very much in a formal way, wasn't it?

B: Yes.

H: That was what was dictated of you.

B: Yeah.

H: But your job requirements. So you've still got that skill set to be able to deliver that way to our children, if that's what they want. If it isn't what they want, but they still want to do grades, that's where we very much cope together. So Ben will come in and do the formal side of things with some of our students. And then I will come in and kind of take a more holistic approach if that's what's needed with some of our children.

We do have some neurotypical students as well.

B: Yeah.

H: But they benefit in the same way as our additional needs students from being in the room and in the environment and the way that we teach. And actually some of our neurotypical students that do come in want to learn in the same way that we would teach some of our additional needs students.
So for example, we do teach formal notation, but we also teach using colour. We teach using number or with letter. Or I've got one little boy that comes and is learning the piano using shapes because as part of his additional needs, he does struggle with dyslexia and dyscalculia. So we found another way around it. Okay, well, he knows all of these shapes. So let's draw shapes on the piano and create some music in front of him to be able to play that music. And that's the approach that we do take with a lot of our children.
If we struggle with notation, okay, let's change it then. Do you know your order of colours in the rainbow? Of course you do. So let's do that. Or, okay, we've got, you know, numbers one to eight. So let's use numbers one to eight. But it doesn't stay that way a lot of the time. Some of our students will start with shape or colour or with number. And now some children are reading notation instead as a natural progression from one to the other.

C: Yeah.

B: It's not exclusively learning instruments either. There's the element of sound exploration as well, like just getting familiar with all the different sounds. We've got some music technology where we have like synthesizers on the computer and the amount of different sounds that they have, and they can just cycle through them and just like work on that and see how those sounds feel as well, because it's a feeling as well. If you've got a really kind of low bass sound, you can really kind of feel that in the body. And that's also very sensory as well, isn't it?

H: Yeah. And actually that's, that's key to a lot of our children's learning. I'm sure you'll be familiar with that.

C: I am. Yes.

H: So yes, resonance and depth of sound is really important, isn't it? I'd say 90% of our students actually benefit from that.

B: Although we are doing the instrument learning as well, there's a lot more involved in it with the different sound explorations, like I say, playing all the different instruments, being able to hear how different instruments work and, but also how they relate to each other. And just kind of getting a general idea of how music is formed and
H: Or even just how sound itself is created.
B: Yeah. There's a lot more going on than your previous trombone lessons, I think.
C: A lot more kind of Interactive.
B: Yeah, interactive.
C: And a lot more creative from what you're saying.
B: Yeah, yeah, very much so.

C: So when somebody walks in the door for the first time, you've got no idea what you might do by the sound of things.

H: No. And we let our students educate us. They show us the way that they want to learn, or they show us the way that they are accustomed to learning or the way that they prefer to learn. So it's very much the first session, maybe two, is a case of sitting back, giving them access to anything that's in the room and watching. And very often, their behaviors tell us. And that's, I think that's what's most important. Because if we can get that that bit cracked right from the beginning, that's it. That's the biggest hurdle that a mainstream music teacher would come across. Because everybody's different, of course.

All children are different. All children with additional needs are different. And actually, one child can be different one week to the next or one hour to the next. So it might be that we've got some new medication and we're struggling to regulate. So something that worked last week might not work this week. But we've got a whole arsenal of tools up our sleeves to be able to say, "Okay, let's try this this week. Let's try that this week." But everything is within reach for our students too. So we often find that our children will go and pick something up. And then we will build something around whatever it is that they've chosen for that session. Because they've told us, "Okay, you want to use those. Let's try this today." And that's how our children learn. That's how all children learn. They learn through play.

C: So what made you decide to do this? What was the moment? And did you both decide as one of you wrote the other end?

H: I was doing a positive behaviour course for our 10-year-old. Basically, it was a tick in a box exercise to try and get some support from CAMHS. And during this training programme, the part I found most useful about it was being in a room with other parents who were in exactly the same situation, exactly the same position as I am. And being in a room with people that you don't need to explain things to.
And it was one of these parents, actually, because we got to know each other quite well over the space of 12 weeks I was doing it for, over the space of 12 weeks. And it was another parent that said, "Well, hang on a second. So you've worked in a mainstream school as a SEND practitioner for best part of 10 years. You're a musician. You're a practising musician. You've taught music in said school. Why are we not combining those skills?"

And it was just a bit of a light bulb moment for me because I just thought, "Why haven't I thought of that?" I spent my life thinking outside the box and didn't have that thought. So it was a real light bulb moment.

And then I came home after that and shared that conversation with Ben. And I watched his light bulb switch on too. And we just kind of thought, "Oh, that's a very good point."

C: Can you remember what that felt like inside?

H: For me, the adrenaline rush was incredible because I just thought, "This is it."
And I knew immediately, "This is it. This is what we want to do. This is what..." For me, it felt like it was what I was put here to do because it's something that I've got so much love and passion for.
And coming to work, I realise I've only got to kind of roll down the stairs and I'm at work, which is great.

B: We'll not be able to claim the mileage on that.

H: No, absolutely not. Unfortunately not.
But for me, it's a joy to do. And I look forward to getting up every day and knowing I'm doing something I love because every single child that's come to us and has joined our Coping Together family, they stay. They enjoy.
Their parents enjoy when they come and they're sitting in on lessons and they're watching their children flourish. But I get that privilege too.
It's been life changing for me as an individual, but also life changing as a mum, particularly for my daughter, my 10-year-old who, day-to-day life can be a bit of a struggle for her. It can be. But actually, it's broadened my horizons and made me think of different ways to approach things, which has then made her life easier too.
So it's very much, I can't even say a double-edged sword, it's 10 edges. And each of them have been sharpened throughout this process. And it just works for us as a family because it's something we can do at home.
And we can think about transport to and from school and our other children, what time they're going to be home. And we don't have to worry about a childcare aspect either. And we all like passing ships some days though, can't we?
B: We are
H: One in, one out. But it works for us.

C: So there's a real sense of, I found my purpose.
H: Yes. Very much so.

C: And for you, Ben?

B: Yeah. Well, when Heather came back and told me about the idea, it was very much a light bulb moment. And I think you'd come up with the name on the same day or like the day after.
Coping together. That's it. That's perfect. It's like the name works because of our names being cope and it kind of brings everything together, doesn't it? Because we're all coping together as families in that, in that world. I'm more of like the technical guy, I guess.
So I was straight onto creating a logo and kind of getting the brand set up and all that kind of stuff. So it just kind of fell into place at the right time. Didn't it?

It was amazing that we never really thought of it before, but I think just because we were so kind of caught up in the SEND world as it was or is, we never really kind of put any thoughts into it. And we've never done anything like this before, like setting up a company or business ourselves. So we have no idea what we were doing. So it was all very fresh and new for us. So yeah, it gave us a real kind of spark to kind of hit the ground running, essentially perfect idea, but at the perfect time and it just seems to have just worked out, doesn't it?

H: Yeah, absolutely.

C: And what's it been like for you as a couple?

B: We've always been very close. It's kind of made us even closer, hasn't it? Because we're able to kind of spend all our time together, even though we just said we're passing ships, but in the daytime we're able to kind of be in each other's presence and we can kind of bat ideas between us.
H: We never get fed up with each other.
B: No.
H: Never. I think the biggest test would have been as for many other couples, I would imagine, would have been over lockdown when we were literally forced into each other's presence every day and every night for six months.
And actually that's probably when we were at our happiest as a couple because we were quite happy to be together.
C: Yeah.
B: Yeah. So trying to keep our daughter level throughout that six months was tricky. So that took up quite a lot of mental - H: resources, - B: energy and stuff. So we had a dog as well, didn't we?
H: We did have a dog.
B: We got a dog on the first, but just before lockdown started. So there was lots of things for us to keep us from going completely insane.
H: Yes, absolutely.
B: Of course I built the studio through lockdown as well. So I guess there's like maybe even at that point there was a little spark already kind of there thinking that I have a music room to teach in because I was teaching privately anyway at that point.

C: Yeah.
B: Obviously not through lockdown. I was doing it online then. But afterwards with the company starting up, nothing's really kind of changed as a couple. Just carry on with...
H: Carry on coping together as it were.
B: Yeah.
H: Yeah. And that's why, I mean, that's why our company name is so perfect for us because we do everything together.
Even down to more menial things. Like if there's something, some DIY that needs doing in the house, we're very much, we're going to have a go at this ourselves.
B: Yeah.
C: Yeah.
H: We're both quite independent as adults, but together, anybody that knows us well, particularly our family would call us a bit of a force to be reckoned with. I think when it's the two of us.
B: We have our different things that we're good at in regards to coping together. I'm doing all the like the bookkeeping and all the background stuff.
H: All the stuff I just don't want to do.
B: Yeah. And I like get all the technical stuff sorted, like setting up the instruments and the sounds and all that kind of stuff. And you're more into the teaching side.
H: Yeah. The teaching and the learning and the, you know, we do work in a supportive capacity for a lot of our families too. So not just, they don't just bring their child for a session and then that's it. We've have got some families that as is the same for other SEND communities, I think that because we are SEND parents ourselves, it's a case of "I've had this new behavior this week. What do you think about this?" Or "Have we tried this? Have we tried to ever think about this?" And that's generally how some of our sessions tend to go.

It seems to be useful for parents as well, not just the children, but in equal measure. Sometimes we've got parents that will suggest things to us if we've had a tricky behavior appear in our house over that last week. "Oh, have you tried this?" Or "Have you tried that?" "Oh, that's a really good idea." And that's generally how things go.

C: There's a real sense of togetherness and community, both with one another. I mean, it sounds like you're a brilliant partnership, which is such a gift when you've got children with additional needs, isn't it? If you've got a good partnership at home.

H: Yes, I don't think I would get through some of our more tricky days without him, that's for sure.
B: And vice versa, of course.

C: Yeah. So you've got a community, haven't you? You've got the community between the two of you with your family where you're working brilliantly as a partnership. And then you are creating a community of other SEND families centered on your home and your studio. And I remember you telling me that actually your neighbors have been really good too.

H: They have.
B: Yeah. Fantastic neighbors.

H: We're very, very lucky with our neighbors. Very lucky with them. They're very supportive of us as a SEND family. Because of course, we lived here before coping together came a thing. And we introduced ourselves to our neighbors on the day we moved in. And we sort of explained our family situation, explained that we can be a very noisy household depending on how our 10 year old presents.

B: Of course, she was four at that point.

H: Yes, she was four then. Ten now, four then. But yes, but they've always been really good.

We had a Christmas event for our students a couple of years ago, wasn't it?
We sought all the neighbors permission first, but we set up our musical equipment and PA system and whatever outside on the drive under a gazebo to give some of our students the chance to perform.
So we did that too. And the neighbors all came out and joined in and baked cookies and that kind of thing. And it was just a really lovely immediate community event next door in particular, or sort of saying, oh, when's the next one?
But yes, another set of neighbors a little further down. One of their children has become one of our students now too.

C: Oh, brilliant.

H: So she comes to me specifically, but she comes twice a week, once for vocals and once for piano.
So yeah, it's very much a very accepting, inclusive little neighborhood that we've got.

B: Yeah.

H: Isn't it?

B: A little nook.

H: A little nook. Our own little inclusive nook in the world.

B: Yes.

C: Yeah. Which is just beautiful. It's wonderful. Really wonderful.

H: It is.

B: Yeah. It's nice that it's not secluded, but it's away from any busyness. And I think that really helps with the kids that come here. And even the parents that it's away from all of that and you can just kind of come in and it's just calm and relaxed. And yeah, to have the neighbors on board with it as well is a massive, massive help. So we couldn't be more grateful for that really.

H: No. Or lucky in fact.

C: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it can be really difficult if you're in the other situation.

B: Yeah.

C: Yeah. Yeah. I know people who find their neighbors incredibly challenging.

B: Yeah. Thankfully they are very, very nice people.

C: Yeah. That's brilliant.

So you have been together less time than your children have been alive.

H: Yes.
So yeah, so I have an 18 year old, then an almost 15 year old. Our Eve, we've mentioned is 10. And then Ben and I share a little girl who's nearly three. Ben's very much hit the jackpot with that, haven't you love?

B: All the kids.

H: All of the kids. Yes. Inherited three children.

B: Yeah.

H: Before we produced our own. Yes.

C: How's that journey been?

B: It's actually been okay, hasn't it?

H: Well, I think so.

B: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's obviously been some trying times, especially with Eve and her behaviors and stuff. It's, there have been parts where it's been very, very difficult.

H: Yeah. I think you were very prepared for that though, from the beginning.

B: Yeah.

H: So we knew each other for three years.

B: Yeah.

H: Before we got together. So you were, you kind of already come across Eve and the boys.

B: Yeah.

H: So you were, he was already familiar with them and I was always very open about Eve's disabilities. So yeah, it wasn't a great shock to the system, was it?

B: No, not at all.

H: For you.

B: In fact, I remember one, like one of the few first times I'd come around to the house and Eve was there and she came over and she was like stroking my beard and I kind of suffer.
She found it endearing, you know, it's just lovely that she, she obviously accepted me straight away from quite early on.

H: Yes, she did. Which is, you know, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, Catherine, that's quite a big deal.

C: Yes.

H: You know, for, for, for some, but for, for a child like Eve, particularly where she does struggle with new people. I mean, she's very tactile, isn't she? And she's very affectionate.
She always has been. But as a, as an adult where Eve's concerned, you know, once you've been accepted, but with Eve, it was immediate, which was a huge tick in a box for me, of course, because I just thought that's one battle I've not got to fight.

C: So was this your first venture into parenthood, Ben?

B: Yes, very much so. Yeah.

C: So what have you discovered about yourself on that journey?

B: I was actually living with my sister at the time that we got together and she's got two children of her own. So I was actually already involved in a family setting anyway. So being an uncle at that point, I was quite familiar with doing uncle duties and all that kind of stuff. So in fact, it was quite easy to transition from that into my own family set up because I was already doing all the little jobs, you know, with the little run arounds and all that kind of stuff. And the kids seemed to accept me as well.
H: Yeah, absolutely.
B: When I was first on the scene, which again, massively, massively helpful. So we just slotted in perfectly, didn't it?
H: Yeah, I would agree with that. It's probably the perfect way of putting it.

B: Yeah. And the fact that I knew that our connection was so strong.

H: Yeah, because it was right from the beginning.

B: Oh yeah. Far from the beginning, we just knew that it was.

H: This is it. This is the one.

B: Yeah.

H: Which sounds like a cliche, but actually in this situation, there's no other way of putting it than that.

B: Yeah.

H: It was, well, when you know, you know, it was literally was that for us.

B: Yeah. 100%. So getting into the family set up, it was, it just seemed to work and seemed to be just, it was right.

H: That's that. I think that's it. I think it was because it felt right.

B: Yeah.

H: For both of us, I think in equal measure.

C: Yeah. And personality wise, it feels like it really fits for you.

B: Yeah. And I think that comes across as well to the kids that we have and the parents as well, that there's never any kind of - H: awkwardness - B: or - H: atmosphere - B: or anything like that. It's always just...

H: Neither of us can be bothered to be totally honest, can we? We've got a good communicative relationship as well. And any times we are, we do find ourselves under any pressure or any undue stress. It's never for something that either one of us have created.

C: Yeah.

H: It's something that's just happened and we just kind of pull together and deal with it.

C: So you are coping together in the face of things that are coming towards you, but not...

H: Absolutely. Absolutely.

B: Which is why I was saying that the name was perfect. So yeah, just everything just kind of, again, just, just feels right with the music service that we're running as well.
It works for us and it feels right.

H: We're both people that are very much believers in creating your own happiness.

C: Yeah.

H: So we don't rely on other people to do that for us. There's never any expectation for things to just happen. If we want this to work, then we equally, we need to put the effort and the thought and the passion and the love into things. But then that comes quite naturally to both of us because that's what we did as a couple out in the beginning, that we are very much all or nothing people. Aren't we?

B: Yeah.

H: And that's with everything that we touch. You know, we want things to work. And because of that, because of that drive that we both naturally got as people, we want things to be successful.

B: Yeah. But we also want to help.

H: Of course. Yeah.

B: We've got, we've got a very strong will to, to help people out because being in a SEND family ourselves, we know how much help means to us. So therefore, if we put that same kind of vibe across to our students and parents, that we're willing to help and all that kind of stuff, it creates a stronger bond, I think, rather than...

H: Not just, not just between us, but between us and our, our, our parents and our children, you know, a lot, a lot of our parents want to stay when they bring their children. I mean, we've got children that have been coming to us for over a year now and their parents still choose to stay because they want to be here.
Not just a case of, I'm not going to leave you with my child. You know, we do have some children that stay independently of parents, but they normally appear a good 20 minutes before the end of the session. We find to come and sit in and watch.

B: Yeah. Well, that's really nice though.

H: It is really nice.

B: That makes it even more fulfilling, doesn't it? That the parents are there to enjoy it all and see their child expressing themselves and being creative because they might not see it in other settings.

H: No, I mean, we've got quite a few children that would, that mask at school.

B: Yeah.

H: Whereas we, we take all of that demand away.

B: Yeah.

H: When they're here. So I think we're pretty well versed in that now as removing demand because we're aware that demand is a huge thing. It is, but it can be the smallest of things that create a massive demand as well.

B: Yeah.

H: So that's, yeah, that's something that we, we're always striving for.

C: There's a real art to that, isn't there?

B: Yeah.

C: And the more you can create an environment where the young person knows there's not going to be those demands, the easier it becomes for them to come and be and be themselves and then to try things out.

H: And that's the point. And that's, that's what we want from each, each person, each young person that walks through our door. We want them to just be, we want you to be you.

And we're always instilling into these children. We don't want you to be anybody else.
We want you to be you. You're perfect just the way that you are. And that's it.

You know, there's no expectation from us. There's no stringent rules that we expect you to follow.

If you want to come wearing your pyjamas, wear your pyjamas. If you're comfortable in them, then that's absolutely fine. If that's, you know, it would also give me an excuse to put, to put pyjamas on if that's something that I wanted to do.

B: Well, there was one student that turned up in a knight costume.
H: Oh, there was. Yeah, he did. He came dressed as a knight.
B: That was he four years old? Is he four or five?
H: He's five now, yeah.
B: He just turns up in his knight costume with his sword and shield.

H: Which meant that that session, but what I took that as communication, he was telling me, this is who I am today. Okay, let's create something around your costume.
So we had a medieval music session for half an hour.

Sometimes he'll come dressed as Spider-Man. Okay, let's do something superhero based today.
And it's about paying attention to the way that the children are presenting themselves.
You know, particularly children that have got communication issues that wouldn't necessarily be able to verbalise. Well, actually, I want to do this today. So they, they always find a way to communicate it to us. And it's about looking for those cues and spotting and knowing that every behaviour is communication.

That's the whole point for us, isn't it? And it's about children being whatever and whoever they want to be, depending on what mood they're in, whether they've slept well or not, whether they're on new medication or not. It doesn't make any difference to us. You are who you are today, and we will do everything that we can to you feel like you fit. Yeah.
And that's that's the whole point.

C: It's really beautiful and it's really beautiful to listen to you both and your ability to work together.
The fact that you are doing something which you know is your purpose.
You said, didn't you? I feel like this is what I've been put on this earth to do.

And it also means that the fact that you're a SEND family hasn't meant that that has been the absolute entirety of everything in your world, which it can become.

H: Yeah. I mean, we're aware, you know, that there have been times when particularly before I met my now wonderful husband, there have been times when I've felt completely isolated and completely alone and just thought, why me?

C: Yeah.

H: Why do I have to deal with this every day? What have I done to deserve it?
And it's about changing that mindset, but having the tools and the support to be able to do that.

C: Yeah.

H: So, you know, being married to Ben has made me a much better person.
He's actually equipped me with the skills to be able to make things better.

C: Also giving you the head space.
H: Absolutely.

C: And love is a great provider of energy, isn't it?
H: It is very much so. Very much so.
B: Yes.

C: Yeah.
H: You know, and having that relationship with somebody where you can feel that from them.
C: Yeah.
H: We're very aware of sensory needs and that kind of thing. But for us as a couple, it's very much something that I can feel emanating from him. And I would hope that works the same in reverse. But it's very much a feeling that it's the same with our teaching and with music.
It's something that is first and foremost, a feeling.
C: Yeah.
H: So you're already feeling that, let's give you the tools to do something with it. I think that's what our relationship has created.

C: Yeah.
H: I think our relationship is probably the foundation that sits underneath all of this.

C: But how fantastic to have come out of that dark period of isolation into this place, which is just so beautiful. And I can almost feel in my body that sort of "I'm in the light!" It's sunny today.

H: Well, that's the point. It's about it's about that feeling.
That's what that's exactly what I was referring to.
B: Almost like an aura.
C: Yeah.
H: Yeah. And I do think that we probably well, we know because people from various places have told us, but that we create this aura between the two of us and we kind of give off those vibes.

C: Yeah.
H: But it's not something that we have to try hard to do. And it's not it's not a conscious thought process. It just happens.

C: It's all coming out of who you are as individuals, as a couple, as a family. All of that.
H: Yeah.
C: And the love that you have for one another, the love that you have for your children and the love that you have for everybody who walks through your door.

H: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. That, you know, we don't we don't call ourselves the coping together family lightly. It's just that feels the right way to put it for us as individuals and as a couple is it's very much, you know, these children walk in the door and we love each of them.

C: Yeah.
H: It's not about coming in and I need to do this with this student today or we love each of them and each of them that come into this room and have stepped into our family.

We welcome them because we want them to be here as people, not just to students.

B: Yeah. And the more we get into it and we realise different family setups and just kind of think how amazing a person has to be to be in a situation like yourself, to be able to kind of give up your time and your life to someone who needs the help.
And we just feel like we need to do that for those people because they're just amazing human beings and just has this kind of real nice kind of full circle mess about it all.

C: Yeah.
B: We're all together. Like I say, in the coping together family, all on this kind of mission to just enjoy what we've got.

C: Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. I've done work in the past around kind of helping people to work out, you know, what's my life calling my purpose? What would work? And you've got all of it.
So you need something that you love, that you're passionate about. You need something which you're good at and can enjoy getting better at. You need a kind of a sense of purpose. I'm giving this to the world. Ideally, you want to be doing something without other people sort of looking over your shoulder. So a sense of autonomy, you know, this is something I'm creating the way that I want to do it. And to do it in community with other people, that kind of doing it together. And you've absolutely nailed all of it.
But not kind of deliberately. It's like, okay, there was that light bulb moment. I know that this fit. And that sense of adrenaline rush that you talked about kind of said to you, this is it. This is the thing. And it's kind of all, all come together. And it's lovely.

B: Yeah, which is what we're saying is that it just feels right.

H: I didn't realise it until I started doing it. But it is something that I absolutely love. And I will never want to do anything else.

C: That's amazing.

B: There's just a variety of the different characters that come in as well. There's just something massively endearing about kids who come in and you know, they don't have any opinion on politics or anything like that. They just blunt. They just say how it is. They don't care. It's just great that there's people out there that don't have to worry or think about - H: All the trivial stuff. - B: All the trivial stuff, you know, they're just here to enjoy music.
H: And just to be.
B: And be in a safe, comfortable environment. And it's just great.

H: It's a real privilege to be being able to provide that actually for those children.

C: Yeah. And the fact that you're entirely unlike my trombone lessons, where the agenda was set and you have come and do it. The fact that you've talked so much about welcoming the young people in and then listening, really, really listening and looking for what are you communicating today?
And how can I facilitate that? Which is just lovely.

H: That's exactly it. And that's, that's the, that's the aim of the game for us.

C: And that's what works because that takes away that sense of demand. It will be for the young people who walk in here, there will be other situations in their lives where they feel like they don't fit. And where they feel like there was something wrong with them because of how they end up interacting with the world. But they come in here and who they are does fit, is good, is celebrated and is loved. And I think that's amazing.

B: Thank you. Yeah.

C: Well, thank you so much. It's been an absolute privilege to chat with you and to hear your story.

H&B: Well, thank you for having us.

[Music] C: Hope you enjoyed this episode of the Loved Called Gifted podcast. If you'd like to get in touch, you can email lovedcalledgifted@gmail.com.

You can find a transcript of this podcast at lovedcalledgifted.com.

And that's also the place to go if you're interested in the Loved Called Gifted course, or if you'd like to find out about spiritual direction or coaching. Thank you for listening.