In this wide ranging conversation, Catherine talks with Dr Laura Beres, who is Professor of Social Work, at King's University College at the University of Western Ontario. They talk about spirituality in the context of social work, narrative therapy, research into spirituality and resilience and COVID 19. What can help us in our everyday spiritual practice from the Celtic inspired practices of community of Iona? And from the Benedictine concepts of conversatio, obedience and stability. How might the idea of cloisters be helpful to us today? And why might a diary be a great spiritual tool?